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| Re:MYOB |
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By _edge - Posted on August 21, 2007 - 16:02:36 (#21913)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Hey!
No, actually I was speaking of someone else lol. I would like to think we've been cordial in the past ;p That's cool what you've done though, good job :)
Had similar grief myself, sorry to hear that.
-edge
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| you don't mean me, by any chance? |
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By MYOB - Posted on August 21, 2007 - 15:24:21 (#21911)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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I had QT 3.4.3 working on X on BONE but the laptop died a horrible horrible death along with a somewhat ported (GTK was compiling but not linking, supporting libraries mostly working) GTK 2.4.x. I've since had BeOS related mishap after mishap and haven't had the bored downtime to report them - I got QT working after a day without internet and with three TV stations, only two in English...
As goes sharing, I uploaded the glib 2.x build as it was working fine - or so it seemed, and even got the patches back in, but other than that everything was on the dead laptop. The hard drive might work, I'll give that a shot some time...
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| Re:Prog |
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By _edge - Posted on August 21, 2007 - 14:41:39 (#21908)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Not by me, soz. There was some time ago a person who claimed to have both gtk2 and qt3 ported/working on X; however this person does not share with others and never provides proof so take that FWIW.
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| Any plan to port GIMP 2.x? |
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By Prognathous - Posted on January 4, 2005 - 06:31:07 (#15280)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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v2.2.1 was released a few days a go. It would be nice to see it on BeOS.
Thanks,
Prog.
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| Recent Posts |
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By Moriarty - Posted on September 16, 2003 - 21:34:58 (#8840)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Everybody,
My comments were not meant to criticize Edge for his work. Too often on here it seems like everyone is ready to fly off the handle because a real question with a valid point was asked. I sincerely wanted to know why Edge could / couldn't do the things that I mentioned. I had heard of other problems with other ports (my reference item being Perl) and only knowing of scant reasons why.
Sometimes I think many people on here are so ready to pick up the touch and fight to the death to defend something that perhaps that are not seeing the other possible reasons why I might have asked those questions. Similar problems bring similar solutions. Well, Edge has apparently ported more apps from Linux to BeOS than anyone else in this forum, so it seems to make sense to raise those points and publically asking because I sincerely wanted to know. Do you know of any easy resource that states why these design changes were made, or begun, as the case may be by the original team at Be? Any ideas what the original team was thinking? What were their concepts for future APIs and why? Sometimes knowing where you are going and where you have come from helps solves an interim problem.
To Edge: There was no offense intended by any of my comments. I sincerely wanted to know the why/why nots. Since you have ported so many apps in the past, it seemed you would know, since your announcement of Gimp for BeOS BONE flatly says "for BONE because of missing functionality." Thank you for porting this apps, and the other ones in the past - proving not only does open source work when put to use, but also showing that development effort for the BeOS is still going strong.
To Everyone Else: Calm down and relax. I'm not trying to troll here - I've been using BeOS for a long time now, and I love the OS more than any other since my Amiga days... There were no personal remarks against Edge made, and none were intended. Excuse me for wasting your time. I was under the impression that a forum such as this was meant to foster the discussion of new ideas and techniques as well as ways to solve the problems in the past. I guess I was wrong on this point. As far as coding an app, or developing something to solve the problems that were mentioned by both Edge and myself, well maybe I will. Zeta's not here yet. But when it is, I guarantee my money going to be sent for my copy.
Moriarty
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| eh? Yeah! |
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By s_d - Posted on September 16, 2003 - 19:05:09 (#8839)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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sodipodi is vector-drawing app.
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| Sodipodi eh? |
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By sasquatch666 - Posted on September 16, 2003 - 17:57:53 (#8838)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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never heard of that one..(dl-ing the Windoze version right now)Reminds me a little of Pixia in the screenshot ,or maybe it's just the anime' mascot,well anyways it's always good to see new graphics app being ported to BeOS although Gimp seems to be too much of a hassle to me to try,and I already run it in Windoze and Linux,and although it's a very powerful graphics app,I find it's interface to be one of the worst of all graphics apps,but I do fire it up occasionally to use some of it's filters AND FX,but for freehand painting,I'll stick with Artpaint or Z-soft PC Paintbrush(in Windoze)
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| me too |
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By Caz - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 21:07:53 (#8830)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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edge has explained himself enough already about why bone is needed, he ported it after all. If you want to prove otherwise that bone is not needed then get the source and see what you can do, if you have a workaround then send a patch. Thanks to edge for the many and varied ports he has made available.
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| agree with Zenja |
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By s_d - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 19:49:15 (#8829)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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net-server is dead-end.
Honestly, spending huge amount of time to in attempt to workaround it, is like revitalizing corpse.
Free-soft developers working at price of its free times cannot be forced to do anything, which don't bring them joy and have some sense just for them.
If you disagree with this free-coding approach, you have two possibilities - start to code yourself, or pay for such work.
Point.
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| Either way, doesn't matter |
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By zenja - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 18:04:08 (#8828)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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C'mon people, stop giving Edge a hard time. This is a proof of concept project, nothing more. To be honest, BONE isn't the issue, its using the monstrosity called X11 which is the real problem. We will get BONE with Zeta, it's pointless (from an engineering point) for a team to spend so much time getting a non-BONE port working when a BONE system is just around the corner (YellowTab). Besides, you can always get BONE from BeShare (I didn't say that :-). I've played with trying to port Konqueror (using the Qt 2.3) framework), but the biggest issue is the horrible X11 server. Coming from a BeOS world, working in X11 is so uncomfortable, that its not worth it. Thats why I abandoned the Konqueror port, since it relied on X11 (besides, Firebird is actually usuable these days). Great work edge, and please dont listen to the net_server folks in this instance.
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| Did already |
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By hardedged - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 16:07:45 (#8827)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Not like I should have to tell you (what you don't believe me?), but I went to someone else's computer. No, don't you think I already ported it to net_server first? It doesn't work on net_server even with function call replacements that should provide adequate means.
Yes it is a waste of time (sorry). It requires parts of what used to be in libbind, but later they were integrated into gnu libc itself. The libc on BeOS is too old to have it included, and BONE includes libbind and libsocket.
If you want to port an older version of libbind to BeOS (like BE Inc. did) to get these parts, then by all means feel free. If Apache and other higher-level projects are any example, this just is NOT going to happen. Noone has the source code to the net_server stack or the BONE one, except obvious commercial entities.
There are a myriad of examples I could point you to, program and projects either neglected in wait for an official BONE or just plain abandoned. I am not going to waste my time calling off that list.
googoo gah
;)
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| Please clarify |
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By Moriarty - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 15:02:44 (#8826)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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HardEdge, thanks for your prompt reply.
However, I still don't understand what the problem is with GIMP needing calls to something that BONE is providing. By simply having enough of GTK work on X11 for Net_server and being able to generate a working binary is proof that it _should_ work. So, despite the shortcomings of Net_Server and the X11 that is implementated on top of it, what is in GIMP that requires a full blown BONE implementation? Isn't enough functionality already present to do so in the Net_Server X11 that would make a simple fill-in-the-holes approach feasible?
As far as IPC is concerned, you will always have problems with it - taking a Linux software model and trying to downgrade BeOS with it is going to be shoddy. because of X11's ancient design specs. However, if we are using X11 as a simple way to display the Toolkit items and objects, can't we just simply wrap around the calls that Net_Server doesn't provide somehow, and take these calls we are attempting to handle and either inline their functionality ourselves within the GIMP source, or pass them on through some sort of compatibility layer / library function? Other cross platform software projects have taken a similar approach, so why can't this? The Perl port for BeOS 5 doesn't have sockets built in, due to a similar lack of ability in net_server code. They simply leave the ability out, and I believe, wrap for the rest. Why can't we do something similar?
I do apologize in advance for wasting anyone's time. Maybe I am missing the point everyone is trying to make. To me, this seems like a problem that should be easy enough to resolve. If someone has a link to an online resource that they could provide, then please share it here, and I will end the conversation.
Brian
Off-Topic - If you don't use BONE, how did you guarantee that this would work? Did you cross-compile/cross-develop somehow, or send it to a buddy somewhere to help you check for problematic code?
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| Re: Moriarty |
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By hardedged - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 14:21:32 (#8825)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Let me make this clear: the GTK+ port that GIMP depends on does not require BONE. It is only GIMP that requires BONE.
Not all sockets are TCP/IP sockets, and if read my post below maybe you will understand. I am not going to state myself 3 times over.
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| Sodipodi |
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By s_d - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 14:04:41 (#8824)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Hi, edge.
I think there is next good gtk candidate to compile.
It may be even easier than GIMP:
http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net/
http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net/screenshots/new/sodipodi-0.32.jpg
Regards, fyysik
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| Why does it have to depend on BONE? |
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By Moriarty - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 14:01:39 (#8823)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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First off, thanks to Edge and anyone else who may have participated in the finalization of this piece of software technology. Nice to see something intrestring still being kept alive for BeOS...
I do have a question for anyone out there in Userspace who cares to answer:
Why do the versions of GIMP and GTK that have been ported to run under X11R6.4 running under BONE require BONE in the first place?
I know the obvious answer will be because GIMP makes extensive use of GTK, which looks for certain elements to be present in its environment (namely socketed calls and like, I am assuming) and BONE is much easier to port to because it has all of the functions in a more POSIX-like fashion, the networking stuff is so much better, so on, and so forth...
But, if X11 has been made to run under Net_Server versions of BeOS, then why would there so many problems? I mean, it is easy to take source code from other apps, install and compile them and they work as expected to under Net_Server because it seems to me that most of the calls that are required are provided by X11 to an X Client or an X server would've already been worked around or patch by the original author(s) of X11 for BeOS. In this case with GIMP, or with GTK, we aren't requiring it to be running on four different machines that are sharing resources - Can't we just pretend the resources are present, by adding some sort of "dummy layer" or "dummy call" to the code and going from there, by or creating a working library that maps some stuff as needed? I mean, why do we really need to have a network-capable GIMP when it may be easier to simply just make a compatibility layer of sorts...
I am just a programmer / Sys Admin that dabbles in everything from my ancient Commodore 64 to the SGI Box I use at work. BeOS is my favorite toy, and I have a lot of experience with involving connecting various machines via similar protocols and such. If I knew enough about the differences between the BONE implementation and the Net_Server way of doing things, I'd try to create a "translation library" of sorts. It seems there is enough info online about GTK and POSIX calls to last a lifetime... Who knows?
Maybe I am missing something here - I'm probably reading or approaching this problem wrong, and my constantly being overworked is starting to effect my ingrams...
Anyways, feedback is welcome...
Brian
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| Thank you |
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By Icewarp - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 12:45:43 (#8822)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Thanks edge, great one.
cheers,
Icewarp
www.bug-br.org.br
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| I do not care, this is fantastic |
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By IgRussell - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 06:29:57 (#8821)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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I am newbie, and since I installed bebits' konqueror on beos (I tend to get bored, lol) I installed the gimp for beos on gtk site with plenty of help from people on beshare. Thank you for this, I like it a lot.
By the way, as I said, I am newbie, so maybe this is a silly question, but, given we have GTK, and given there is an abiword for gtk, and given we have our abiword a bit old, could it be possible to run abiword for gtk on beos using GTK?
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| Why throw the dog a BONE? |
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By hardedged - Posted on September 15, 2003 - 01:36:46 (#8818)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Thanks zenja =8)
There is no net_server port, because there are problems with IPC and socket handling _-_ even BONE has problems. Myself, I do not even use BONE, so count me in the same boat as other net_server users on this one.
Further even the BONE that is out has bugs, and you will either have to purchase Zeta for a fixed implementation or wait (years?) for a 'Walter The Frog' replacement...
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| Please make non-BONE build... |
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By fatrat - Posted on September 14, 2003 - 23:16:56 (#8816)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Hi,
If there's not a specific reason for building this as BONE-only (i.e., not a real driver problem etc.), please make a non-BONE build and post. Quite a few of us aren't using BONE.
If there IS a problem, please detail it and try to talk on the developer lists to get around it :)
Thanks,
-Jon
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| Sweet |
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By zenja - Posted on September 14, 2003 - 21:54:38 (#8815)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Sweet. Getting X11 based GTK working (and GIMP) is a sweet proof of concept project. Its a pity that the native GTK port (David Reid and co) is stalled, so I guess we should be glad for the next best thing - X11 GTK and GIMP. Well done edge.
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| Nice! But why BONE?? |
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By ealm - Posted on September 14, 2003 - 21:30:10 (#8813)
Current version when comment was posted: 1.2.5 |
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Cool to see a gimp port and some OSS competition to refraction and Pixel32.
One thing that I can't understand though is why it should require BONE?
Myself I can't use BONE since there are no BONE compatible drivers for my NIC...
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