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| net_server builds for FieldNet Association's releases |
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By Monni - Posted on March 25, 2004 - 05:14:19 (#11662)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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If someone wants to try net_server build of some of "our" applications, most of them have sources available on one of the BeShare servers and those which don't have are most likely closed-source anyways. I don't have any net_server machines currently but if the demand is high I still have 2 partitions free on my "FreeBSD" machine.
The separation for several builds (net_server, R5/BONE, Dano and/or Zeta) is justified in some cases by the fact that developers can make specific enhancements to later builds and optimize for all available operating system releases instead of optimizing for either oldest or newest builds.
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| Re: What's the price... (and about R5/BONE/R5.1 builds) |
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By BiPolar - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 22:50:30 (#11655)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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I just love to have people like ablyss in here :-)
And about how many eggs are we talking here, hmm? (discounts for quantity are available!)
Regarding net_server/bone builds:
Have you ever wondered why is that (networking) apps like wget, NetPenguin, Stamina & Charisma, all build for net_server do actually work pretty fine on both networking stacks?
I just had "discovered" that my port of Privoxy for BeOS didn't really needed two different builds (and next update will reflect that, unless gods get mad on me :-).
The thing was, by the time I did the BONE build, I didn't had any *working* R5 at hand; thus the BONE build. After that I did my best to put up a net_server build while fighting with, at that time, troublesome R5 I was able to install.
The funny part was that I had to actually _change_ the code to make the BONE build, and those changes were not necessary at all for the net_server one.
Now I have a pretty stable R5 PE as main system, and Exp/Dano to test compatibility, and, as I said, net_server build works ok on R5.1, groovy.
So, in few words, I advice to devs to try first to make a net_server version (unless the port is inviable, of course), and testing it in BONE or Exp/Dano before going to the fuzz of another specific build/release.
There's a lot more chances that an app build for R5 will work on BONE/R5.1 than the other way around.
BiPolar.
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| What's the price ...... |
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By ablyss - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 19:00:26 (#11653)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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| It's all one BeOS community |
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By Kokito - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 17:16:18 (#11652)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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Monni: you do not have to explain why you did the Zeta build. Whatever your reasons may have been, it turns out that by posting it here you did a service to the community, as someone else may have a use for it. That's what counts!
filo: I agree with you in most counts regarding YT. Zeta is not perfect. YT has made mistakes. But thanks to YT/Zeta, BeOS has received a lot of exposure through trade shows, magazines, TV, etc. This has attracted new people to the platform, something that we need if we want to grow our user and developer base.
Jess: your post came across as a rant to me, but I may have been wrong (it is hard to tell from writing sometimes). However, you seem to contradict yourself, as you do finish your second message saying "Be is gone & we are an angry divided clan". So, are you ranting or not? :-)
I do not agree that Zeta split the community. The community will split to the degree that you want to draw a line between BeOS and Zeta. It is ironic: Zeta users consider themselves BeOS users, but the hardline BeOS users, the same ones that claim that the community is divided, make a conscious effort to differentiate between BeOS and Zeta. So, tell me, who is trying to split the community, if anyone?
Be is gone and things will never be the way they were. You can cry and kick over the past or make the best out of what you have at hand. I choose to make the best with what I have at hand, which is why I support Zeta. In fact, I actually think that Zeta has brought much needed NEW users to the community that would have not otherwise even tried BeOS. In spite of their alleged mistakes, I think we should thank YT for that.
The legitimacy of Zeta has probably nothing to do with its name. YT may have decided to change the name for marketing reasons, or they may have been forced to do so. Don't expect every move that a company makes to be obvious or agreeable to you.
Sorry, but I do not understand what you mean by "the last full Be release". Zeta is the only post-R5 system built from the actual BeOS codebase, so what's your point?
Relative to having apps for the various flavours of BeOS in bebits.com, I am in favour of it when it makes sense. If any of the OSBOS systems that you mention come to light in the future, then I would welcome applications for them as well. However, that would not be the case for Syllable, as it is not a BeOS clone (check their website at http://syllable.sourceforge.net/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1&categories=General#44, and see Vanders comment at http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=5472&limit=no#179895). I am not sure about Cosmoe; they have the "We support BeUnited" logo on their site, but according to their FAQ, it is not a BeOS clone ("Is Cosmoe a BeOS clone? No, Cosmoe is a unique OS which happens to use an API which is largely similar to that of BeOS"). Relative to this topic, Perhaps we should start talking about the BeOS platform, so that it becomes inclusive of all the different flavors of the BeOS system, both current (ie., Zeta) and future (OpenBeOS, which will have a different name).
Sorry for the long post. Cheers,
Koki
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| Supporting YT |
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By Jess - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 15:01:17 (#11647)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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Here comes da fun! This is kinda funny because we all have made big posts & nothing really direct to the app at hand, but on with the show.
I've said this many times before but I'd love to have supported YT but they do not have anything I realy care about. Some would say they have hurt the community more then help & I don't wanna go there but way back I disscussed the name & many other things with Bernd. YT was originally going to release a BONE update to all Be users for free. Mind you lots of things didn't happen & that's fine. The name might have punch in other langs but it plain sucks for the western world market but again YT doesn't really have a demo graphic other then the existing user base & a small margin past that.
Now my point is I'd totaly buy stuff from YT if they sold the Tracker for R5, BONE, and say the USB stack, etc. I run the SVG tracker, and old beta build because I was doing the icons for it but I'd like an updated one for sure. I'd buy stuff from YT if it was for the last full Be release & not built off or on a broken version of Be. Now the "Broken" statment is a poke at the app server. SLIDY TABS OR DIE!!! If thou taketh thine slidy tab then my nearest friend and love I must part with the! I'm sure there are many other things that could be stripped & compiled rather easy for R5 that people would love with out having to buy Zeta as a full package & given the tiny market YT is bound to you'd think they'd do it for sales.
Any how it's all personal & I think the original basis for any of this disscussion is because seeing "Zeta" on bebits is like seeing, BeShare "Requires Windows XP" hah In time I'd say the Be clones may start showing up here with bin tools & apps but untill then it's still a shakey shift & I think the owners might want to change the name & Domain... you know to lotsofbits.com or bitsofstuff.com, maybe oscloneconfusion.com or better yet
www.wehavesomanyappsfordifstuffwemightaswellbetucows.com
MUH HAHAHA let's all hug & make up k? GROUP HUG!!!
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| Reply to Jess |
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By filo - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 14:45:47 (#11645)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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If BeBits is simply going to remain a site for BeOS apps, then soon, no one will come to BeBits. The site needs to list apps for BeOS, yes, but it needs to list apps for all the BeOS replacements. OBOS and B.E.OS definitely, quite possibly Cosmoe, and obviously Zeta, as they (zeta apps) are already here and the OS exists. Syllable, well, they aren't really a BeOS replacement per se, so maybe not.
[Disclaimer for the remainder of this comment: I run stock R5.0.3 and disagree with many of the directions that Zeta has taken with regard to updating BeOS]
As far as YT changing the name...who knows why other than they. Maybe they weighed the pros and cons and decided that "Zeta" was punchier and cooler sounding than "BeOS," and that any reputation that BeOS had was not strong enough (and let's face it, in the world at large, it wasn't) to justify keeping an awkward and odd name.
As far as the community goes, they have contributed to the community by way of releasing code: their Locale Kit, Dockbert, etc. Now, some people have been rubbed the wrong way by YT, ture; however, they are the ONLY real commercial BeOS or BeOS-like enterprise in existence right now, and we need to, if not support them, then not publically attack them.
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| Other derivates too? |
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By Monni - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 14:39:25 (#11644)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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I think I wouldn't mind if all derivates could have equal chance (compared to Zeta) to have apps in BeBits, but then there must be a strict line which is derivate of BeOS and which is just a look-a-like derived from or based on for example Linux.
One more thing about Zeta... I think a lot of people currently active in BeShare servers, including Koki, know what I think about yT and Zeta and I can honestly say it is not all positive.
For me posting Zeta version first was totally logical reason, I didn't have R5 booted on any of my machines and I *did* have Zeta running on exactly one machine and I needed to check information about one domain name and I didn't want to telnet/ssh to ISP's Linux server or reboot to Windows to do that.
In future I still will support R5 as much as I can. And will (try to) support OpenBeOS when it will reach release candidates and first official release (R1).
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| Uh rant? |
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By Jess - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 14:21:47 (#11643)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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I find it funny you address my statments about YT as a rant. I think of anger & hostility when I think of the word "Rant". I simply stated the way things are. Zeta split the community. There is a large degree of mistrust & a good deal of emotional effect from this & I think the "Walter" Joke from OBOS also showed this. Zeta is in essence Be in a half finnished state so yes Zeta is Be but the legalities come into play with the whole name thing. If Zeta is legit why did YT change the name instead of building on the name & reputation they paid for when they got their license? The initial idea is that people come here & see all this stuff about Zeta... but this site is for the BeOS.
On a curiosity note will BeBits then start to house apps and tools for syllable? Cosmo? AtheOS? Blue Eyed OS? OBOS? All Be derivitives so is it fair game? heh
I think the point is Be is gone & we are an angry divided clan.
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| Different name, but under the hood, Zeta is BeOS |
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By Kokito - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 14:14:01 (#11642)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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Hi adamk,
> Then why is it not called BeOS, but is instead called Zeta :-)
Good question. :-) All I can do is speculate as to what were the reasons for YT to re-brand the product, since I do not know the facts.
However, what's more important, and what really matters to the user, is that under the hood, Zeta is BeOS.
Koki
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| If Zeta is BeOS... |
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By adamk - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 13:59:11 (#11641)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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Then why is it not called BeOS, but is instead called Zeta :-)
Adam
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| Zeta bits don't bite! |
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By Kokito - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 13:41:02 (#11640)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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Hi Jess,
My comment about BONE builds was not relative to the legal and ethical implications that you raise, which I actually agree with (I have never used BONE or Dano myself). My post was in connection to the impression that some people want to give about Zeta apps having a dividing effect in the community. This, I strongly believe, is a myth that the YT critics want to perpetuate to make YT look bad.
With all due respect to you as an old-timer in the community, whether you like it or not, Zeta is BeOS. If you don't like Zeta for whatever reason, don't use it. If you choose not to use it simply because you hate everything YT, that's fine too. It is your choice. But remember: there are many other BeOS users out there who have chosen to move to Zeta. That was their choice and that needs to be respected too.
If a developer chooses to use Zeta and develop apps or produce builds for Zeta, he/she is free to do so. We do not need any police force here telling us what can or cannot be done. After all, Bebits.com is a place for BeOS software, and since Zeta is BeOS, then posting Zeta software/builds here should not be an issue. What is "stinking Zeta stuff" (sic) for you may be useful for others. Don't try to impose your yardstick on everybody else.
With regards to the legality of Zeta, you can speculate as much as you want, but the reality is that YT is under no obligation to probe you anything. The fact is that YT is about to deliver a product and has stated publicly that they have the license agreements in place to do so legally. Whether you believe it or not, that really makes no difference.
I can't respond to your rants about the bridges that YT burned, etc. etc., simply because I do not have the facts. But I can say that if you have a problem with YT, it would be better if you dealt it directly with them instead of venting it here.
Most Zeta and/or YT related posts/discussions are so emotionally-charged, that they end up being illogical and sometimes contradicting. Obviously some people are completely overtaken by their emotions when it comes to YT and cannot look at Zeta, the system, objectively.
Hey Monni: thanks for the Zeta build. All Zeta users appreciate it. :-)
Koki
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| Zeta bites? |
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By Monni - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 12:33:55 (#11638)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7 build 1 |
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Ok... For you non-Zeta users, you can try the one I compiled on my R5.0.4 machine.
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| Actually koki |
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By Jess - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 12:04:01 (#11636)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7-zeta |
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When people started posting BONE apps I cared & raised a fuss. I felt they dishonored an other wise honest community that was starting to use something Be never said we could have.
In any case Be is Be so IMO YT should have either never varied the name or make a ZetaBits cuz we don't need no stinking Zeta stuff here! :)
Na really sadly Zeta is kinda Be but I'm very opposed to it as many know & from my experiance most long time users are. You will have to expect some resistance as YT has burned many bridges & keeps the community in the dark about many crutial things.
When Be Inc. "feel" & BeUnited swung up into high gear along with a few other groups there was a long period of secrecy between the groups & the community... paving the way was YellowTab & they have created many enemies & much mistrust. I mean they have never to ym knowledge even answer the questions about the legalities of what they sell. This leaves many people spouting off about IP & if they were not legit Palm would come stomping but in this situation I don't feel this is accurate nor enough to support claims of being "legit". Infact I'd say quite the opposite. If they are legit why so much silence about the lisence & co-opperation between YT & those they deal with? I don't know & I never got these answers even when *Cough* I was *cougH* doing stuff. :)
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| Why not?! |
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By Kokito - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 10:42:13 (#11634)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7-zeta |
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PLEASE, stop starting an anti-Zeta crusade everytime someone posts a Zeta app on bebits.com!
Nobody ever said anything or even cared when BONE apps (that DO NOT work in netserver systems) were posted, so WHY the fuzz about Zeta?
I really hope that the new Bebits.com moderation system is not used to "filter out" (and I am being diplomatic here) Zeta apps. Now, THAT would be splitting the community.
Koki
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| Why? |
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By Monni - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 09:09:32 (#11633)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7-zeta |
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Old versions are several years old and things change. New domains are created and new registrants are added, also old domains might have been removed.
I didn't want to use very latest version because Zeta's compiler can't handle all code that new compilers can.
I will update domain information in this version if someone knows for sure that some information is still outdated.
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| Why is this here? |
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By Technix - Posted on March 24, 2004 - 08:54:54 (#11632)
Current version when comment was posted: 4.5.7-zeta |
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There are already a few whois clients here. Do they not work under Zeta?
On a related note, we'd like to know from the community what whois client(s) should be removed, along with any other "applications" that shouldn't be on Bebits.
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